Req 13 swords (why do you bash them?) - Guild Wars Forums

ty3c · Aug 15, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

why is req 13 for swords getting a bad name!

Its sooo easy to get to 13

you just put some points on it till 12

and then use

a minor swordsmanship rune

and bam u got 13

its not hard its easy STOP BASHING REQ 13 SWORDS

they can rock too

and they should value as high as req others

plus this paying so much for a req 7 sword is insane

you people are nuts.

thats my two cents

someone handle my question for god sakes.

Knido · Aug 15, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

the lower the req, and the higher your points into swordsmanship the more damage youll do. a req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

Algren Cole · Aug 15, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knido

the lower the req, and the higher your points into swordsmanship the more damage youll do. a req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

why are so many people convinced this is true?

riflex · Aug 15, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knido

the lower the req, and the higher your points into swordsmanship the more damage youll do. a req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

LOL I have to say that that's completely UNtrue. If you don't meet the requirenments, your sword will do basic damage instead of the listed one. That damage depends on the sword but is something close to 2-4. The difference between your current attribute level and the one a weapon requires is NOT included in the damage calculations. Read THIS ARTICLE.

Here's an example to illustrate the concept of weapon req's:

You have a max, clean, not customized longsword with a req of 12. But holy crap your swordsmanship is at 10 and you can't do anything about it! The sword will therefore do 2-4 damage, or so, 3 being the average. Say you're wacking a monk wearing wanderer's armor from droknar's forge (60 AL). You also have no points in strength so your attacks dont have armor penetration for the ease of calculation.

So here we go: 3*2^((5*10-60)/40) = about 2.5 damage a hit.

Now, you increase your swordsmanship to 12 via a major swordsmanship rune. Holy cow your sword will now do (15+22)/2*2^((5*12-60)/40) = 18.5 damage a hit to that same monk. Oooooh!

So... A sword with a req of 8 will do EXACTLY the same amount of damage as a sword with a req of 12 AS LONG AS YOU MEET THE REQUIRENMENT. So that's why swords with a req of 8 will generally sell for much more - people do not want to invest too many points into swordsmanship to be able to do just the basic 15-22 damage. That's particularly useful to secondary warriors who can't use warrior runes. What people need to realize, is that you will do considerably more damage with swordsmaship of 12 than with swordsmaship of 8 even if your sword only requires 8:

8 swords: 18.5*2^((5*8-60)/40) = 13 damage a hit on average, to the monk.

12 swords wielding the EXACT SAME SWORD: 18.5*2^((5*12-60)/40) = 18.5 damage.

And that's not even customized yet... And if you're a warrior with high strength you will do even more damage with swordsmanship of 12....

I beg everyone to read the article about how the damage is calculated in GW to eliminate all the misconceptions such as the one I explained in this post.

PS: For those who are lazy, I provide you with a quote from the article to confirm my explanation:

Quote:

It is important to realize that the attribute requirement has no effect on the damage (except through the baseline). It only determines which value is used (the hidden or the listed value). A 15-22 sword with an attribute requirement of 8 will deal the same damage as a 15-22 sword that has an attribute requirement of 10 ??? provided that you have your sword mastery at 10 or more. If you do not meet the requirements for both (i.e. a sword mastery of 7 or less) then they will not necessarily deal the same damage as the hidden damage range could be different (one might be 5-7 whilst the other might be 6-8).

Akilles · Aug 15, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

can someone just write ArenaNet and get the decisive answer.

riflex · Aug 15, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akilles

can someone just write ArenaNet and get the decisive answer.

I thought the way the article explains everything is decisive enough...

sino-soviet · Aug 15, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knido

the lower the req, and the higher your points into swordsmanship the more damage youll do. a req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

I dare you to go and write to Ensign and argue that this is true.

Xue Yi Liang · Aug 15, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Kha!
I call upon your power to please close this thread!

Ensign · Aug 15, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knido

req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

You have got to be kidding me. We went over this *yesterday*

A 15-22 sword with a 7 req and a 15-22 sword with a 13 req do *exactly the same damage* if your Swordsmanship is 13 or higher. Period. Low reqs *only* matter if you're planning on using the weapon at a lower attribute, since a low req weapon will let you deal some damage while a weapon who's requirement you don't meet will do next to nothing.

Lower requirement weapons dealing more damage is one of those persistent rumors that will *never* die. This has been tested and proven by several people on multiple occasions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

why are so many people convinced this is true?

And you wondered why I'm such a jerk in threads of this sort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty3c

why is req 13 for swords getting a bad name!

Ah, the original question. There are several reasons for this:

1) People are clueless and think that a req 7 sword does more damage than a req 13 sword. It really doesn't matter if it's true or not, people believe what they want and pay accordingly.

2) Lower requirement weapons are more flexible. You can twink your newbie character with a lower requirement sword. You can drop your weapon attribute below 12 and still have a useful weapon with a lower requirement. This is more important on some weapons (bows) than others (axes), but there is a difference.

3) Lower requirement weapons are technically better. In a game where items don't matter all that much, the rich need something to lord over each other, and a req 8 weapon with max stats is better than a req 9 weapon with max stats. When you're paying more for vanity than effectiveness, things like that matter.

If you just want to be competitive, though, the requirement really doesn't matter at all for melee weapons. You're likely going to be using a weapon attribute if 16 so the requirement is largely irrelevant. Requirements matter more for Rangers who sometimes skimp on Marksmanship to pump up their preparations or just take a different route (trapper, beastmaster), or casters who often grab staves or foci from secondary attributes that often aren't maxed.

Peace,
-CxE

justinkim · Aug 15, 2005, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knido

the lower the req, and the higher your points into swordsmanship the more damage youll do. a req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

this is one of the most craziest and dumbest things ive heard. who would really think that way?

Nightsorrow · Aug 15, 2005, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I prefer low req swords because I like to run warriors as tri-attribute - 11/10/10 Mastery/Strength/Blood Magic - being forced to pump an attribute higher and/or equip -life runes means I'll lose out on either my Strength skills or my Blood Magic - not something I want to do.

rhalle · Aug 15, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I'm clear on the requirements business, but:

12 swordsmanship does more damage than 8 swordsmanship-- when you have the same weapon, right?

Or not?

Eonwe · Aug 15, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhalle

I'm clear on the requirements business, but:

12 swordsmanship does more damage than 8 swordsmanship-- when you have the same weapon, right?

Or not?

Yes, it will do more damage.

Sir Skullcrasher · Aug 15, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

for my character, im sticking with the level 10 attribute for my hammer mastery.. even thought i own 5 hammers, three of them, i met the level requirement. The other two is a level 11 and 13 but i still can do decent damage, althought i can't hit enemies for 40 to 80 points of damage using the higher level hammers.

stumpy · Aug 15, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinkim

this is one of the most craziest and dumbest things ive heard. who would really think that way?

a kid ... who oviously cannot make use of the calculators provided by guru.

on top of that ... someone who should never ever make a build for tombs/guild battles. This is the type of person you want to put the weapon in his hands and say go mash stuff now.

NIB · Aug 16, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

A very popular point distribution is 12, 12, 10(with no major/superior runes). For example 12 swordsmanship, 12 strength and 10 on a skill from a secondary prof. So having a 13 req weapon doesnt help you much.

Aug 15, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28	#1
ty3c Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005	Req 13 swords (why do you bash them?) why is req 13 for swords getting a bad name! Its sooo easy to get to 13 you just put some points on it till 12 and then use a minor swordsmanship rune and bam u got 13 its not hard its easy STOP BASHING REQ 13 SWORDS they can rock too and they should value as high as req others plus this paying so much for a req 7 sword is insane you people are nuts. thats my two cents someone handle my question for god sakes.

Aug 15, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31	#2
Knido Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: in exile Profession: W/	the lower the req, and the higher your points into swordsmanship the more damage youll do. a req 10 sword with lv 12 swordmanship will do more damage than a rez 13 sword with 13 swordsmanship points

Aug 15, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54	#5
Akilles Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Brothers of the Jade	can someone just write ArenaNet and get the decisive answer.

Aug 15, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21	#8
Xue Yi Liang Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern CA Guild: Outlaws of the Water Margin Profession: Mo/Me	Kha! I call upon your power to please close this thread!

Aug 15, 2005, 11:22 PM // 23:22	#11
Nightsorrow Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Servants of Fortuna Profession: N/	I prefer low req swords because I like to run warriors as tri-attribute - 11/10/10 Mastery/Strength/Blood Magic - being forced to pump an attribute higher and/or equip -life runes means I'll lose out on either my Strength skills or my Blood Magic - not something I want to do.

Aug 15, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39	#12
rhalle Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Aug 2005	I'm clear on the requirements business, but: 12 swordsmanship does more damage than 8 swordsmanship-- when you have the same weapon, right? Or not?

Aug 15, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50	#14
Sir Skullcrasher Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: California Guild: 15 over 50 [Rare] Profession: W/Mo	for my character, im sticking with the level 10 attribute for my hammer mastery.. even thought i own 5 hammers, three of them, i met the level requirement. The other two is a level 11 and 13 but i still can do decent damage, althought i can't hit enemies for 40 to 80 points of damage using the higher level hammers.

Aug 16, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26	#16
NIB Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: LF top 100 guild Profession: E/Me	A very popular point distribution is 12, 12, 10(with no major/superior runes). For example 12 swordsmanship, 12 strength and 10 on a skill from a secondary prof. So having a 13 req weapon doesnt help you much.